So the below article says that Red Rocks were silently selling tickets for 0.75 cents??? If this is accurate, Sting needs to know, a game plan change must be on the horizon unless he is willing to forgo amphitheater shows in areas like the Irvine, CA and St Paul, MN. What was confusing to me is I have no idea how 10,000 seats Red Rocks sold out the first night so quickly (I thought it must be scalpers) and the second night was very close to being sold out with few seats left yet Minneapolis and Irvine had the arenas half full. Scalpers got caught with their pants down when they added that 2nd show at Red Rocks, I doubt they will get fooled again, neither will a promoter. At the same time, Sting could actually be doing well compared to other artistes in this massive worldwide recession, at least the tour is on, not cancelled, big cities are selling out still, but it is still weird to hear of arenas half full with a Sting concert. Beyond that, no new material, still old material for the last 8 years of touring. Again, we are in a big recession and maybe concert ticket prices were too high, yet at Red Rocks, including fees, I got $100 tickets in row 14 center (even though they claimed $100 were for around row 18+), yet row 13 center was $220, I could not see why being a row closer costs so much more, no way was I paying that.

So check out this article and tell me in 2011,

1) Is Sting gonna cave in because of financial pressure from promoters and the recession and record an album with the Police and tour as even Andy Summers claims he is a money man?

2) Record a solo album and tour and risk playing in smaller venues and do what he claims in interviews, it does not matter whether he is accepted by the masses or not but he will pay for fun and the love of music to his dog?

3) Will he really write original music for an orchestra as he has claimed in recent interviews?

Sting's next move will prove whether Andy Summers was right, I will lose all respect for him if he reunites the Police again with an album. I don't mind him rocking out Broken Music style or reuniting the Summoners Tales band or a hybrifd of the two. In the end, this is the first time Sting is playing to half filled arenas, I predict major decisions and changes lie ahead.

www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/article519197.ece/Sting-stung-as-fans-spurn-pricy-shows

Sting stung as fans spurn pricy shows
Jun 27, 2010 12:00 AM | By - © The Times, London

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When Sting joined the Royal Philharmonic Concert Orchestra on stage in the Rocky Mountains recently, he performed what local critics called a "magnificent show" to many empty seats.

'Sting put on a great show but it was too last century'
The embarrassment might have been even greater had promoters at the Red Rocks amphitheatre near Denver not been quietly selling tickets days before the show for 75 US cents each.

It was a far cry from the crowds that greeted the Beatles at the amphitheatre in 1964, when fans had to be diverted into car parks to listen from afar, and it reflected a summer of jarring disappointment in the music business.

Over the past decade, rock stars have become accustomed to lucrative tours making up for a fall in record sales. This year, Live Nation, the biggest tour promoter in America, has quietly scrapped nearly 10% of its arena shows as audiences failed to materialise. The phenomenon has afflicted not only vintage rock and pop bands, such as The Eagles and the Go-Go's but also, according to Billboard magazine, "hot" younger acts such as Christina Aguilera, rapper Ludacris, teen idols the Jonas Brothers and Rihanna.

Some saw the downturn coming. Beyoncé Knowles, the Grammy-winning R&B singer, was reportedly offered a $10-million tour over 15 nights in August, but turned it down, saying: "Everyone else is on tour, so I am going to take the year off."

Billboard said bands were suffering from soaring ticket prices in a recession, and a glut of live music for fans to enjoy.

Blogger Bob Lefsetz said audiences were rebelling over extra charges added to ticket prices as well as the familiarity of the acts.

"Sting, for instance, put on a great show but it was done all wrong, too last century," he said. "They are also charging New York prices in smaller cities. Acts may have to go back to playing smaller, cheaper theatres."

I don't know but ticket price played a huge part in why I didn't go when he was in Washington state.

As for what he does next I still feel that a Police album would fail because it wouldn't meet what the fan base wants fromt them and they'd blame Sting for it... if it sells they credit the rest of the band...

I can't say for America, but it seems in Europe the Symphonicities tour is selling pretty well. They keep adding new dates, new cities, so there must be the need (and the will to pay the high ticket price).

But maybe this proves what the article is saying: Sting isn't too successful in the US - so they decide to "exploit" Europe to get the money in. The European tour dates include some cities where Sting hasn't played too often and isn't expected to return to very soon afterwards, so of course people take the opportunity to go and see him. It's definitely true for me: I would have preferred to see him on one of his earlier tours, with original material, but I simply was too young and he hasn't been to the smaller countries like Austria on every tour. So, when I got the chance now, I knew I'd pay almost every price for a ticket (well, I did actually *sigh*)

However, I can't agree that the show is "too last century" or that this could be a reason for failing - I think this is what divides Sting from all the "hot young acts", where the light show and the costumes are more important than the actual songs. Also, many of Sting's fans are "last century" too - I mean that in a positive way, his fans aged with him.

When Sting launched "Songs from the Labyrinth" I won a free ticket to the first night as St luke's from Sting.com and then was offered the chance to buy some for the other night. I did so I could take my girlfriend, and gave the other ticket to Lady Dolphin.

The tickets I bought cost just SIX POUNDS! Is this the cheapest anyone's payed for a Sting show?

The concert was brilliant, though my girlfriend thought it was "a bit too four centuries ago"...

Fish, I am not sure how hugely successful another Police tour would be either, I am not even sure the 2nd night Red Rocks Police show sold out, I remember like Sting's Symphonicities, the first night sold out quick. But even the Police, when they added a 2nd night, tickets were available for a while. Now, to a promoter, a Police tour with a new album will translate to one of the few mega bucks tours. Even U2 I think had some selling issues on the 360 tour before Bono's back operation but U2 were playing stadiums with cheaper tickets. A Police album/tour will surely guarantee the trio at least another 150 million. One thing is certain, without a new album, solo or Police, I do not think the tour would be successful. It's either Sting goes album and solo tour, maintain his dignity and play 5000 seat arenas in smaller cities, he could do 15000 seat in NY and LA. If he goes all orchestra, I think people will be bored by it, been there, done that. His best option is record solo, tour with an awesome 4 or 5 piece behind him. Or he can sellout again and run back to Andy and Stewart.

i really don't think it's a telling comparison between this tour and symphonicities for many reasons, not the least of which was the fact that the police tour didn't take place during one of the worst recessions in recent history. the police tickets were expensive. if they went on tour again, attempting to fill stadiums with the greatest hits tour like last time, i'm sure that there would be plenty of empty seats. hell, there were empty seats when i saw then a few years ago. people cannot afford to spend hundredths of dollars for concert tickets all the time. the police had novelty on their side - they hadn't toured in damn near 25 yrs. so, of course people are going to be itching to see them.

as for U2, trini, you're right. they were having problems selling tickets this time around, and last if i remember correctly.

i think the growing trend in the music industry, at least for the foreseeable future, might be to downscale the tours and charge people less. this last U2 tour was ridiculous. their stage rotated 360 degrees, had all sorts of contraptions flying around, the screens were ridiculously elaborate. all that stuff costs money, and the fans get their accounts drained if they want to see their favorite artist.

i don't care for that sort of business. i would love to see sting and dominic playing together with david and josh in some small arena. when i saw the broke music tour at the UIC pavilion (not a very large arena) it was for $30! and it was the best sting concert i've ever attended, including the police concerts. we don't need huge setpieces if the music is good.

i don't know if he would be inspired enough to compose a full album, though i do hope that Sting was sincere when he mentioned that he might consider writing something with an orchestra in mind. i want to believe him when he states that he does not give a fuck about what anyone else thinks. right now, it is something of a strange coincidence that so many musicians i had admired for quite some time are working with an orchestra in 2010. Peter Gabriel's Scratch My Back is orchestral and his current tour is purely orchestral with no outside elements of rock instruments. Gabriel is simultaneously working in the studio with the New Blood orchestra rearranging his own compositions for his next release. David Sylvian has been working on some contemporary orchestral compositions with conductor Dai Fujikura and members of the International Contemporary Ensemble. Jeff Beck's recent album was recorded with an orchestra and he even took them out on the first leg of his tour. i'd love to hear Sting delve deeper into the possibilities with no commercial concern.
and in my opinion, the less successful something is nowadays often indicates how much more musical it usually is.

glarb, i completely agree with you. i believe that for these musicians, working with an orchestra is the ultimate challenge. orchestral music, if done right, has many layers and nuances. the difficulty is coming up with these layers and making them fit with the bigger picture of the whole arrangement. it wouldn't be a stretch to say that sting is re-working his own songs with the orchestra in order to learn how composing for an orchestra works. he knows these songs inside and out, having composed them and performed them for decades. what better way to learn the trade than to see what is possible with songs you are intimately familiar with?

you are also absolutely right when you say that the less successful something is, the more musical it is. there is such a sad lack of patience and a real desire to educate ourselves in today's society. everything has to be instantaneous. there are songs in sting's catalog which took more than a few listens to warm up to. but once i did, i began to hear things i had not heard before. i feel the same is true of literature. any piece of writing which aspires to a certain degree of sophistication and subtlety is a risk for publishers. this type of culture cannot lead to a good place.

Glarb I agree with you but I do not believe Sting is ready to give up massive appeal, I do not believe when Sting says he will follow his "instincts"... I say this because you would not allow certain things to occur if that was an honest feeling... When Sting was in his prime, he released Russians to radio, that was brave and honest.... you may say that was a different time for radio in 1985, I disagree, same crap on the radio today... Since releasing Russians to radio, we have had,

1) We'll Be Together being his next single, sorry, crap song made for radio
2) A remake of Roxanne with Puff Daddy
3) Stolen Car being remade with another rapper (can't remember name, twister or something)
4) Pop single with Mary J
5) Broken Music
6) Police Reunion

It is only since the Police reunion tour that ended 2 years ago that Sting is supposed to be following his heart but I will not be convinced until new material is released and Sting proves he is following his heart but if another single is released with radio success in mind, it will be the same song repeated again.

Check out this review in Atlanta and the fan reviews below the review. I feel the pain of the fan seeking more bass. As I said in Red Rocks, Ira Coleman was inaudible, I spoke to the engineer and I went with the flow trusting his far more experience to me with sound but I am concerned the bass is too muffled but I will still go with Howard Page's explanation that with such a show with the orchestra, subs, bass and volume need to be compromised, still skeptical about that with the little experience below my belt but as Sting said regarding Gore vs Bush in 2000, he must go with experience... In my honest opinion, the lack of bass at the orchestra show was overdone...

ATLANTA REVIEW

Sting reinvents biggest hits in show at Chastain

[url] ]http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-music-scene/2010/06/29/sting-reinvents-biggest-hits-in-show-at-chastain/?cxntlid=sldr_hm[/url]
10:02 am June 29, 2010, by Tracy Brown

By JAMILA ROBINSON

It’s probably safe to put Sting in the incomparable category. With such a distinctive tenor that manages power, angst and even a bit of audacity, after all these years, he’s always reliable.

So, it speaks to the singer’s remarkable imagination, to reinvent some of his biggest hits, including “Roxanne” and “Englishman in New York,” into breathtaking classical arrangements performed alongside London’s Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, an outfit he “borrowed from the Queen.”

At Monday night’s performance at Chastain Park Amphitheatre, Sting thanked her Highness, for the orchestra conducted by Stephen Mercurio. Fans echoed the sentiment as they were taken through a dazzling set list that had familiarity, (“King of Pain” and “Every Breath You Take.”) and underscored the depth of Sting’s songwriting talent in pop, jazz and country (“1,000 Years, “Hung My Head”).

As Sting himself noted onstage, working with an orchestra has helped him “excavate his work” for songs that might have been “forgotten” on his past albums.

Indeed, the Royal Philharmonic broadened some of Sting’s lesser known songs. On “Russians,” (from “Dream of the Blue Turtles”) the orchestra expanded on a melody Sting had already borrowed from Prokofiev, giving it a luxurious glory one would expect from a Russian march.

But just when you’d expect a big, symphonic arrangement, Sting performed a surprisingly stripped down “Roxanne,” showing the strength in its simplicity.

In a too quiet contrast, “Moon Over Bourbon Street” suffered with its complexity, which was decidedly clumsy. And there were moments where the orchestra overpowered the lone background vocalist. But that’s to be expected when the orchestra, and especially, its soloists on violin, cello, clarinet and trumpet, were the real stars.

On “Desert Rose,” a complicated, song already, Mercurio brought out the virtuosity of the strings. They zipped through the show-offy Middle East-inspired bridge. This loosened the musicians’ staid expressions, who bopped along with their violins and violas, matching the audience on its feet. See photos from show here.

[url] ]http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-music-scene/2010/06/29/sting-reinvents-biggest-hits-in-show-at-chastain/?cxntlid=sldr_hm[/url]

Did you attend the show? If so, what did you think?
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18 comments Add your comment

June 29th, 2010
1:06 pm
Went to the show, not really knowing what to expect. Had a thoroughly good time!

Link Report this comment John Sicienski

June 29th, 2010
3:27 pm
Sell your ticket if you still have it!!!!!! It was a HORRIBLE SHOW!!! If you are expecting the Sting from the pre-Police reunion tour, you will be VERY DISAPPOINTED !!!! The first part of the setlist was ok.. Then came the intermission…followed by set 2. If Sting wanted to put the crowd to sleep in the 2nd set, he accomplished his goal… I WANT MY MONEY BACK

Link Report this comment Michael

June 29th, 2010
3:32 pm
Wow John – do you want some cheese with your whine?

Link Report this comment Joby

June 29th, 2010
4:15 pm
Second set is definitely weaker, but the biggest distraction of the show is the buffoon that poses as a conductor. He thinks he’s auditioning for a dance slot on America’s Got Talent…but he has none. The orchestra ignores him when they aren’t mugging at each other in disdain over his antics. They do a fine job and they don’t need this clown. Eric Clapton was better at going acoustic than Sting is at going orchestral, but all in all an enjoyable show (tho we could have left at the half…). Would I buy those tickets again…..? Nah, I’d use the money to buy all his songs on iTunes and keep the change….

Link Report this comment RickP

June 29th, 2010
4:24 pm
Pretty disapointed, missed his thumping bass, could not hear any bass at all. Second set song list was boring. Highlight was “King of Pain”, give it 4/10. Wish I would had gone to the Police reunion tour.

Link Report this comment JW

June 29th, 2010
4:30 pm
I went to a concert to hear one of my favorite artists perform and perform he did. I thoroughly enjoyed the concert especially when he would take the time to expand on how and/or why he had written that particular song. This is the fourth time I have seen him and I think it was one of his best.
What I did not like about the show was the people around me who wanted to talk, hoot and yell while he was perfoming a song. Just can’t understand why people pay money to go to a concert and feel the need to talk thru the entire show. As for anyone else on the stage, I didn’t pay attention to them. Don’t know about you but like I said before, I went to see and hear Sting and I got my money’s worth.

Link Report this comment TM

June 29th, 2010
5:02 pm
For those who didn’t like it, you are not true Sting fans. My third time seeing him and by far was the best. Much better than the last time I saw him in Phillips where the acoustics were horrible and he was shown up by Annie Lennox. His set list was incredible and bringing out songs like “I Hung My Head” was brilliant. One of the best concerts this year.

Link Report this comment nancy

June 29th, 2010
5:05 pm
I thought Sting was incredible!!
If you want to go to a show and hear the same old thing, or hear it exactly as it was played 30 years ago ( ie, Kansas and Foreigner), go see the rocker bands that don’t have enough talent to change anything. Sting is diverse and his music can be complicated. The symphony added more diversity to his music. Desert Rose was awesome! And BTW, The Police broke up a long time ago…..

Link Report this comment nancy

June 29th, 2010
5:06 pm
And yes TM, one of the best shows in a very long time!!

Link Report this comment WyattD

June 29th, 2010
5:36 pm
Disappointment is the word of Monday evenings concert. I LOVE Sting and I love most all his songs, but when you take the melodies down to a tempo lower than the stock market is right now, it just equals boredom and sleepiness. I agree with RickP. There was a SEVERE lack of mid-range and no bass what so ever. The 2nd play list was draining. The heat didn’t help! Overall I would still give it a 6 out of 10, b/c in the end game, it’s Sting and the songs were still the songs, just slightly butchered.

Link Report this comment shellybean

June 29th, 2010
6:00 pm
I’m on my way to Chastain right now and can’t wait to see STING! For all those overly critical, if you think you can do a better job, hop to it!

Link Report this comment Cheryl

June 29th, 2010
6:12 pm
Third time to see Sting and truly the best. Having the Royal Philharmonic caused him to step up his game. His voice remained strong to the end. If you thought you were coming to see the Police, you should have paid attention to the concert promo material. Too bad for you.

Link Report this comment RickP

June 29th, 2010
6:56 pm
Let me clear some things up, No, I was not expecting to hear a bunch of Police songs, I read the set list from the Hollywood bowl concert, so I knew what to expect. I love all his solo work, my point was that to finally see him live, I was expecting more. Now I know that with the Royal Philharmonic behind hime was going to be different, and I’m fine with that, but I was kind of expecting this “wall of sound”, aka Phil Spector, that would compliment his voice. It just missed for me.

the last time I saw the Police was in 1982, with the Talking Heads opening up for them.

Link Report this comment cooter brown

June 29th, 2010
9:34 pm
Jamila – Sting couldn’t write a country song if his life depended on it. Maybe something with a country feel, but not country. I am a Sting/Police fan, but he ain’t country.

Link Report this comment E

June 30th, 2010
9:16 am
To the ones who were not pleased with the show: I guess you all will never be happy. I was first introduced to Sting by my older brother during his Police years and I’ve been a fan ever since. The concert was amazing. The guy sounded amazing. My only regret is that I showed up 30 minutes late. The concert started on time. I guess it’s one of those British things.

Link Report this comment Mikki

June 30th, 2010
9:39 am
Still jazzed from last night’s show–loved that Sting really seemed to enjoy himself even though he has been doing this show for over a month now. Took the time to explain his craft and thought process which added a great dimension. Tribute to those in Gulf with “Fragile” was a thoughtful touch. The last encore where he sang acapella after 2+ hours of singing showed she still had it. Pity those who did not find their evening with Sting enjoyable. Have loved Sting from Synchronicity through Symphonicity….

Link Report this comment K Lopez

June 30th, 2010
1:02 pm
Sting’s performance was brilliant, start to finish. He is an amazing artist that truly gifted Atlanta with his performance Monday evening at Chastain.
Chastain, it’s time to retire your old folding chairs and UPGRADE!!

Link Report this comment Jeff

June 30th, 2010
10:26 pm
Wasn’t sure what to expect – Sting’s voice was great but orchestra did not hit on all cylinders. I agree with several other posts about sound mix -no bass. When I saw 4 timpani’s on stage I got excited but didn’t really hear them during the show. Setlist was good mix of old an new but a bit mellow. Overall 7 out of 10.

Link Report this comment

that should have been bass muted not bass muffled

It's the Obama economy. Perhaps some stimulus money can be used to buy up some concerts tickets of Stars not selling out since they all supported the president's election bid.

Are you being serious, jumpstart? Perhaps you are regaling us with some sort of ironic sarcasm?
If not, then I find it quite amusing how one can be so willfully ignorant of a most pertinent fact that it was the ideologies and policies of the previous administration which obviously led to the recession. Actually, it would be more accurate to write 'previous administrations', since a concentrated effort to wipe out the middle class has been continuing for the past 30 years.
Our massive economical slide is a problem that Obama has been burdened to handle, but he surely was not the cause. An informed person would know that the blame rests solidly with the corporate greed and big business practices of trying to get the most work for the least amount of cost. In many respects, both parties are to blame for allowing this great nation to fall. But there is one specific party which considers itself the party of big business and they had enough power for the adequate amount of time necessary to inflict the damage they have been hoping to inflict since the days of FDR and the New Deal. Unfortunately, they have succeeded to a major degree and now our nation is beginning to mirror the look of our nation during the Great Depression. And that is how they want it. They believe the country should consist of the extremely wealthy and the working class poor, with no middle class in between. The party which favors big business is once again making it easy for the extremely wealthy to obtain the cheap labor they desire.
And unfortunately Obama will not prevail in any attempt to correct this course we are on. For the party of big business knows how to divert the attention from the ill-informed with faux patriotism, racial prejudice and social issues which should be considered moot at this point in time to the point where the ill-informed shall vote against their economic interest.
So please spare us the "Obama Economy" talk. We have been brought to the brink by the ideologies of the party of big business. Informed citizens know exactly where the blame lies for the economical state of this country.

you are quite right, bath, that informed citizens know where the blame lies, and the idea that obama is to blame for our current economic conditions is laughable at best. however, one of the biggest problems facing our nation (among the many many problems we face) is the fact that informed citizens seem to be shrinking in number with each passing year. it's absolutely frightening how many people make their voting decisions and form opinions based on soundbites provided by ideologues. it is true that both parties participate in this voluntary ignorance, but i think it's clear that one party relies on it far more than the other.

I blame a lot of the brainwashing and hence less informed population on hate radio and Fox news, I think there need to be laws controlling accuracy of information if you are broadcasting over the air. The Republican strategy, similar to Hitler's strategy in controlling the masses. Look at the oil spill for instance, Republicans were the ones fighting for dregulation of the oil industry, and unlike Brazil where the government mandates that there must be an emergency cut off valve undder the sea floor, here in the US, oil companies lobbied Republicans to not have that enforced in the US because the 50 million dollar price tag was too much, even though their profits are billions per quarter. But of course, Republicans when they caused this mess with deregulation, as they did with Wall Street are now blaming Obama. Interesting that they are expecting Obama to fix something that no one could fix, it's a mile under the ocean. As Sting said on CNN, he's surprised this has not happened before, watch out in the future as some of these oil rigs are decades old.

Baht, don't expect a reply from J, they can't debate facts.

I get where you're coming from Trini, and it would be responsible behavior if broadcasters were held accountable for the information they spread and how they chose to spread it. But that comes extremely close to censorship and actually plays right into the hand of these disinformation specialists.
I believe that people will continue to have their firm beliefs about certain things and chose to believe what they want to believe, so they tune in to have their beliefs reinforced rather than seek accurate information. And it is their right to do exactly that, which makes this country so damn wonderful. I also happen to believe that 24% of the population in the US are extreme wackos and reactionaries who cannot be reasoned with in any possible manner. That is a large percentage when you think about it. And if I were you Trini, I'd really worry a lot about those crazy survivalists who prefer to dwell in the remote areas of your state. They are all so worried about some concocted idea of the 'black man' taking over and so they have some madman idea of forming militias and staging something akin mini-revolts (aka terrorism). I surely hope it never comes to that. But it is very telling how National Security predicted the upsurge of membership in such groups, and conservatives attempted to mock it as ludicrous.

Ok, let's all just blame the sparse Sting ticket sales on George Bush. It's the best excuse for everything wrong in the country now isn't it? If you stub your toe during the night, just blame it on Bush! If you spill your coffee at breakfast, blame it on Bush! Obviously Mr Obama isn't to blame for anything at all since he is the Messiah!! Nancy Pelosi is the Virgin Mary. Harry Reid is John The Baptist. The perfect leaders each made in the image of God himself. Absolutely the perfect trio for leading America over the cliff of complete and utter destruction, economically, politically and spiritually. Barack Obama, the president on track to play more rounds of golf in his first term than any prior president. Kinda reminds me of Nero fiddling as Rome burned. OH SORRY! I 4got that it's an act of racism to oppose anything Mr Obama does. Isnt that the official party line these days?

Wackos Baht, I agree, to the point where I do not think anyone mentioned Bush's name yet but that is what they read. I agree with you, it's 30 years of past neglect of this great nation.

Now Baht, I agree with free speech but once you are on the airwaves to the masses, do you feel you should be allowed to 1) Say that you are 100% sure Obama is Muslim, 2) You are 100% sure he was not born in the US, 3)Say it's time to pick up arms as Palin did. Now they have no proof to either of the first 2 points and the 3rd can only instigate riots. I think these violent no factual statements do nothing to help us but only help increase the same militia movement you are referring to.

BTW, Happy 4th of July to you

Seriously, all politics aside, it might be a good move for Sting to offer one of these shows in the next couple of weeks to be broadcastfor free as an HBO special. If people could see how good these shows actually are they might buy some more tickets. All live shows have raised prices dramatically in the past 2 years, but it appears the public has hit the wall finacially. It appears the stock market is going downhill again so people are holding onto their cash.

More like 30 years of laissez faire policies, Trini. There has been neglect in many cases, but most of it has been coordinated by those who only care about one thing: profit. Thus, we get the deregulation. Thus, we get the villification of unions. Thus, we now have the situation where employers will thrive and the worker will struggle just to survive while being forced to take jobs that don't pay a living wage. Anyone who knows their history well would be able to see the similarities between now and the situation at the time of the Great Depression. As I've pointed out previously, this is what big business is aiming for. A return to the predicament surrounding the Great Depression.
jumpstart can spout off all he wishes about the current leadership in the House or Senate, and I'm not sure I could defend them anyhow. But we know that it has been a conscious effort to vilify those specific people. It is much easier for them to spew out ad hominem attacks rather than having to actually offer up some facts in some effort to have a real debate.
I find it hard to debate one who likes to slightly change the subject when presented with fact. I find it even harder to debate one who willingly ignores facts. Reagan once declared that facts are 'stubborn things'. He continues to be the patron saint of those who ignore facts.
On another thread, I've covered the ground on how the Republican party has utilized personal prejudice in order to make gains politically, and I don't need to reiterate all that I've said very plainly. But it goes beyond racism, for it now includes a nasty bias against the poor. It turns out that it now extends to a bias against the unemployed. Utah, Orin Hatch wants to drug test people who are unemployed. Like the myth of the caddillac driving "welfare queen" manufactured by Lee Atwater for the Reagan Administration in the 80s, it seems that some Republicans want to portray the unemployed as drug addicts who would rather live off of $200 a week rather than get a job, feed their families and obtain health benefits. Senator Coburn has tried very hard to block the extension for those who are trying to find a job in an environment where corporations and small business owners would prefer to maximize profit by downsizing and demanding more production and results from the minimal workforce they now want. Of course, what they really want is slave labor.

Baht, what could we expect when our manufacturing base was sent overseas for cheaper labor? How can we compete without lowering wages? It's a sad state but what is around the corner is not pretty...

So true about all those jobs going overseas. They will never come back. Ross Perot was right when he said that NAFTA would cause a giant sucking sound & that American jobs would all leave the country. I'll never forget how Al Gore pushed NAFTA through on the Larry King Show when he debated Ross Perot. It's one of the reasons I don't believe anything Al Gore says about global warming as I hold him responsible for the raping of the American job base.

US manufacturing was already on a steady decline 15 years BEFORE NAFTA. You really need to know your history before spouting off about things you don't understand. Most clothes/shoes Americans wear are made in the People's Republic of China -- not Mexico or Canada. (Ironically, most of the "Better Dead Than Red" Teabaggers ignorantly/unknowingly wear clothes/shoes made in Communist China -- yet they consider themselves more "American" than the rest of us!)

You also neglected to mention that George Bush, John McCain, Gerald Ford and Robert Dole all wholeheartedly supported NAFTA.

I was not a fan of NAFTA but it's ridiculous to claim that it was the reason for the loss of manufacturing jobs. (In fact, U.S. employment rose from 110.7 million in January 1994 to 138.9 million in December 2007.)

Right now I'm wearing a shirt made by American Apparel. My pants are made by Lucky Brand. My shoes are made by New Balance. All were made in the United States. It's not that hard to support American workers.

Correction: I meant to say that NAFTA wasn't the SOLE reason for the loss of manufacturing jobs. Obviously, jobs were lost but even the most exaggerated estimate is that 1 million jobs were lost. Believe me, those jobs would have eventually gone to China instead. (I personally would rather have my stuff be manufactured in North America as opposed to the horrific sweatshops in China.)

jj: It's obvious that you're a lawyer because you're very loose with the facts. That's not good. You say ridiculous things like "this is Obama's Economy" with a straight face. It frightens me that you actually believe the things you say.

Time for STing to think about the Police. Friend of mine was at one of the shows recently and said there actually were quite a bit of empty seats. STing, you might want to call andy and stewart at the end of this tour

Well, Sting is doing well considering other artistes are cancelling because of poor ticket sales...

www.9news.com/life/entertainment/article.aspx?storyid=143539&catid=343

Rihanna cancels Denver concert

DENVER - Rihanna has cancelled her concert scheduled for this Thursday at Comfort Dental Amphitheatre, the latest in a string of no-shows for the R&B star.
Metromix: Rihanna's diva fashion

The tour has so far dropped dates in Phoenix, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Dallas and Washington, D.C. as well as Denver, according to promoter Live Nation's website. Denver ticketholders received an e-mail announcing the change over the weekend.

No reason was given, but multiple music publications such as Rolling Stone have reported that the tour is struggling with slow ticket sales. The problem is not limited to Rihanna, either: Dozens of acts ranging from the Jonas Brothers to Simon and Garfunkel have scaled back their summer plans, and trade publication Pollstar has reported that the concert biz may be down as much as 15 percent overall this year.

Rihanna's Last Girl On Earth Tour, which also features Kesha and Nicki Minaj, is slated to pick back up in Las Vegas on July 17. Ticketholders for cancelled dates should contact their point of sale for a refund.

Written by Matt Farley, Metromix.com.


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